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Post by Nina ♥ on Apr 30, 2007 20:34:31 GMT -5
^^ I love allan, and joy is right, I have no debating/writing skills.
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maria
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Post by maria on Apr 30, 2007 22:32:06 GMT -5
I guess... when I think of atheism, I feel like it... for lack of a better word, "oozes" selfishness. In the world, it's all about what YOU can get, how great YOUR life can be, how successful YOU can be. Human beings are very selfish! Sometimes you can even find a trace of selfishness when you're trying to help someone else! If you want to know how I hear God, I'll tell you. Joy, we've had the conversation about tongues before, and remember our "spiritual bonding"? I guess I feel like... if there was another god, not the one in the Bible, why would people believing in the God from the Bible get those amazing experiences? I'm pretty sure that people worshiping a golden statue of Benny wouldn't get that amazing feeling from the Christian God. When I'm experiencing God, I usually get a reference to scripture (like Allan mentioned) that fits my situation perfectly. Whether I'm just randomly flipping pages to hear God, or if I just hear a verse come to me. I know that I am definitely not the prime example of a Christian, and some people know that better than others... but I dont want you to think that because I've messed up means that this faith really isn't that real, but instead think about how I've come back to it stronger and more aware of things... Notice how God can take the most horrible things in your life and they shape you to become a better person, making you realize that you're actually GLAD that they happened! I know that's happened to me so many times. I'm still trying to get a better communication with God, but I can definitely see His undeniable work in my life. He really does lay things out perfectly. I just think it's amazing how God lays out His love so perfectly! Everyone says that God could just make people love Him, but where's the love in that? I love how genuine and unconditional God's love is! How can you just look over that? Every single time I get frustrated and don't want to talk to God, my problems only get worse. There have been times I've sat in church counting down the minutes so I can go home and find something mind-numbing to do to try to ignore God... but when I finally gave up and stepped into His word, I realized how stupid I was being! ...and yet it's happened multiple times... You'd think that as many times I've broken down and come to God realizing that I should've been talking to him in the first place, I'd know to do it every time there was a problem... but I think the fact that I don't proves that God's love and presence is something I could NEVER recreate by myself. But that still doesn't mean I should take breaks from God. It just proves that no matter what you get yourself into, God's forgiveness is so amazing and He really does use everything in your life perfectly.
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Post by {joy the hideous new girl} on May 1, 2007 6:45:45 GMT -5
Joy, we've had the conversation about tongues before, and remember our "spiritual bonding"? I guess I feel like... if there was another god, not the one in the Bible, why would people believing in the God from the Bible get those amazing experiences? I'm pretty sure that people worshiping a golden statue of Benny wouldn't get that amazing feeling from the Christian God. A-who-what? I know of tons of people from different religons who have found this love. It's not solely Christians. The wonderful experiences that you talk about in this post, yes, I have felt them. And whenever I feel connected to God, I feel like... all of the stuff surrounding Him/Her doesn't matter anymore, that this is the same God of the Muslims and Jews and all the other different religons. I know that because I START with God. I talk to God and I hear Him talk to me. Over the course of typing one of these posts, for example, He usually has me make several changes to soften my extremely abrasice tone, and I feel guilty because I ignore half of them (hence my abrasiveness). In any case, the fact that the God with whom I maintain contact directs me TO the Bible, sometimes to specific passages that I have never READ before, is sufficient to tell me that the Bible is a fairly accurate portrayal of who God is. Oh yes, I know this voice well. *smiles at Nina and Randi*
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Post by Swoosh on May 1, 2007 10:49:26 GMT -5
I guess... when I think of atheism, I feel like it... for lack of a better word, "oozes" selfishness. This is definitely not true - a good percentage of atheists are also Humanists, a primarily atheist worldview that encourages helping others as the way to achieve true happiness. The rest of your post is legit, though, although I know that Buddhists experience some pretty crazy "out-of-body" experiences during their meditation.... Some people say the argument that "God is real because I've met Him" is not legit, but I disagree. I look at it like this: You walk to your school, and your principal's car isn't parked in the driveway. You ask his secretary if he's in today, and she replies "No". You go to his office - its locked and the lights are out. This would all lead you to believe that he isn't there. BUT, if the principal suddenly opened the door and walked out of his office, then would you try and DENY he existed, based on all the past evidence! Of course not! He's right there! Of course, God is more complicated than that, but I see where you guys are coming from, and personal testimonies like yours are what's keeping me on the fence at the moment...
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maria
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Post by maria on May 1, 2007 13:39:01 GMT -5
A-who-what? I know of tons of people from different religons who have found this love. It's not solely Christians. The wonderful experiences that you talk about in this post, yes, I have felt them. And whenever I feel connected to God, I feel like... all of the stuff surrounding Him/Her doesn't matter anymore, that this is the same God of the Muslims and Jews and all the other different religons. Well I think the god of the Jews is the same God, they just dont believe that Jesus has come already Anyway, let's say that YOU were a god... if someone was worshiping a golden statue of Benny, would you give them an experience from YOU if they thought it was from another God? Do you understand what I mean? The rest of your post is legit, though, although I know that Buddhists experience some pretty crazy "out-of-body" experiences during their meditation.... Well I could get into what I think about that, but I dont know if I want to and I think everyone would get mad at me... plus, I might change my mind later...
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Post by Nina ♥ on May 1, 2007 14:58:08 GMT -5
You know, I used to think kids that cut and such oozed selfishness but then I had friends like that and I found out alllllloooootttt more people cut than you would know. So Be open minded.
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Post by TORI! (is so hyper it's scary) on May 1, 2007 17:10:39 GMT -5
You know what? Basically Atheist = Democrat without God.
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Post by Nina ♥ on May 1, 2007 17:31:45 GMT -5
lol
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Post by Swoosh on May 1, 2007 18:13:05 GMT -5
You know what? Basically Atheist = Democrat without God. I'm actually more of a Republican... well, I'm pro-life, anyways.
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Post by TORI! (is so hyper it's scary) on May 1, 2007 18:16:42 GMT -5
Well yeah. But when you went Atheist all of your veiws basically changed to democrat...
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Post by {joy the hideous new girl} on May 1, 2007 20:56:44 GMT -5
Anyway, let's say that YOU were a god... if someone was worshiping a golden statue of Benny, would you give them an experience from YOU if they thought it was from another God? wut? I think I get what you mean...but since I see God as more of a universal force non-specific to any religion....then yes, I would. I guess... when I think of atheism, I feel like it... for lack of a better word, "oozes" selfishness. This is definitely not true - a good percentage of atheists are also Humanists, a primarily atheist worldview that encourages helping others as the way to achieve true happiness. Both of you: His Dark Materials. Phillip Pullman. NOW.
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Post by Swoosh on May 2, 2007 14:29:37 GMT -5
I looked it up on Wikipedia - it seems to be getting the same kind of criticism Harry Potter always gets from Christian groups...
Their criticism may be a little bit more justified with His Dark Materials.... but not much.
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Post by TORI! (is so hyper it's scary) on May 2, 2007 18:00:32 GMT -5
I LOVE HARRY POTTA!!!!!
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Post by theallan on May 12, 2007 16:50:16 GMT -5
Hmmm....you know, I wouldn't say that atheism oozes selfishness really. A lot of HUMANitarian actions are done by atheists. What atheism lacks, however, is a justification for unselfishness. Just a thought there.
Anyway, I really hope that I've made it abundantly clear that God isn't someone who I BELIEVE exists or have been CONVINCED exists, but one who I CONVERSE with. A lot of people talk ABOUT God, and most even talk TO God, but what so many people don't know is that you can talk WITH God. My experience with God is very much real. The fact that I speak with Him is enough justification to me that He exists. In fact, I have more reason to believe God exists than I do to believe Tyler exists. (no offense to Tyler, of course)
Remember what I said about how God won't MAKE you choose something? Well here we are again. Eventually we all have to make a choice, the one thing God will not interfere with. Theologians can try to turn God into a science, giving Him as much significance as an interesting equation or a shiny rock, but you have to see Him as He is. He's not a philosophy, a church, a religion, a custom, a thought, or a book. Well, I think I've made my point abundantly clear.
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Post by Swoosh on May 13, 2007 8:04:21 GMT -5
Okay, Allan, I know you're going to hate this question because it turns God into a bunch of theological questions, which your post was talking about NOT doing, but -
If all you have to do is seek God and converse with him in order to find him, how can one religion have monopoly on an afterlife, the holy spirit and the like? After all, if there WAS one true God, then all (theistic) religions would be an attempt ot reach out to Him - no matter how far offbase they were, they'd be sincerely trying, wouldn't they?
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